Gladys Pittman - Interview 1

Interviewee: Gladys Pittman Interviewer: Ken Samuelson Date: July 16, Place: Eden, South Carolina Transcriber: Elizabeth Filine, June 11, 2019 Transcriber: Beverly P. Hill, February 8, 2020

KS: Anyways, this is Ken Samuelson, and today is July the 16th, and I’m here with Gladys Pittman, and my address is 545 Southwood Drive, Eden North Carolina, 27288, and my telephone number is [Removed]. Gladys, why don’t you give your name, address, telephone number, go ahead.

GP: My name is Gladys Moore Pittman. I live at 118 Wilson Street, Eden, North Carolina, 27288. My telephone number is [Removed].

KS: Okay, Gladys, could you tell me your date and place of birth?

GP: I was born in Pitt County, North Carolina on July 23, 1920.

KS: And you were … in what town in Pitt County did you say? Was it in the town?

GP: In the county.

KS: In the county, okay.

GP: Not in a town

KS: And what city were you near, or town were you near?

GP: Farmville.

KS: Near Farmville, okay. We've talked about that from time to time. I used to live in Washington, North Carolina, not too far from Farmville. Okay, so you went to—raised in Farmville then, basically?

GP: In that area, yes.

KS: And until what time? What time frame then did you leave Farmville or join the service and so forth?

GP: I graduated from Walstonburg High School, which is in Greene County; and started … and went to Atlantic Christian College for two years.

KS: And this would have been about 1939 or ‘40 then?

GP: … and then I went to work in a bank and …

KS: Was that in Farmville, or …?

GP: In Farmville.

KS: And, okay, so you worked in the bank then until approximately when, when you went in the service …

GP: When I went in the service. February of 1943.

KS: February of 1943, so you worked at a bank for what, two to three years I’m guessing. Okay, so February of ‘43. What did you know about World War II as a young girl back there? Did you know much about it? Do you recollect [unintelligible speech].

GP: Oh, yes, I was old enough to remember too much, I guess, because so many of my friends were leaving to go and serve. And I was real concerned about death.

KS: So, these were young men you went to school with and so forth, that had gone into service? So you were kind of familiar with what was—kind of kept up with the war basically. What were your thoughts about that? Were you concerned, were you frightened, were you … What were your thoughts about what was happening in the world? Do you recollect anything about that particularly?

GP: Well, I wasn’t as concerned as I should have been, but I wasn’t as patriotic as I should have been. My first thoughts of going into the service was to get away from the monotony at home.

KS: So, you, so getting back then to how or why you went into the service, what was your—what drove you to, to join them? Just wanted to get away from …

GP: Just to get away and out of curiosity.

KS: From the bank and so forth? And did you have any idea what you might be faced with when you joined the service? You just kind of were…

GP: No.

KS: Just kind of adventuresome?

GP: Just playing it by ear. Just waiting to see what happened.

KS: And when you joined the service, where did you join the service?

GP: In Durham, North Carolina.

KS: In Durham. So, you went to Durham? You couldn’t join in Farmville?

GP: No. Durham was it. At the time, it was Women’s Auxillary [Women’s Army Auxiliary Corps].

KS: Mm-hmm. WAAC.

GP: And Durham was the closest place.

KS: Where you could actually join. So, you could not join locally.

GP: No.

KS: That’s interesting. It’s like you [wanted to?] but weren’t able. You had to go to the nearest WAAC location.

GP: Recruiting Station.

KS: Recruiting Station.

KS: So you, so this was what time frame again did you join?

GP: This was in February of 1943.

KS: February 1943. Okay, let me get that fixed in my mind. Okay, February of ‘43. So you went to Durham, and joined up … what did they tell you what would happen? Did you get some orders at that time, or what did they do?

GP: Well, they … at the time I was sworn in, they said that I would be sent to Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia, for bootcamp. And that’s where I went.

KS: And how long, from the time that you joined, did you actually go to … did it take for you actually to …

GP: Oh, just a short time.

KS: So, when you joined, they took you pretty fast, huh?

GP: Yes.

KS: Okay, now how did you get to Fort Oglethorpe? Take a bus down there? What did you do? They just arranged transportation for you?

GP: No. You had to do your own.

KS. Oh, they didn’t pay for your transportation?

GP: They paid you after you were there, you know.

KS: Okay, so you were reimbursed for your … Okay, so you went to Fort Oglethorpe. Now was that the prime location for all the women in the WAACs?

GP: For this area, I think it was.

KS: Were there any men down there? Was it strictly women training base for World War II?

GP: Men were trainers, we were trainees.

KS: Right, but there were no men trainees down there? It was all women.

GP: Not that I recall.

KS: It wasn’t co-ed, in other words.

GP: If they were there, they were in a separate area, and we didn’t see them

KS: You didn’t interact with them or anything. Alright. So when you got to Fort Oglethorpe, what did they do when you got off the bus? Do you recall … what happened to you?

GP: We were taken to the barracks and assigned a cot, a bed, and there were probably 40 people in each barracks. And we were given information about what we were to do, where we were to eat, what our daily routine would be, that sort of thing.

KS: Okay, what was your daily routine when you first got there? Maybe it changed over the time, how long where you there, I guess, may be a good question to ask? Do you recollect? A month or two, or several months?

GP: About a month.

KS: About a month? Okay. And was this basically for basic training, I assume, right?

GP: Just, yes, just for basic training.

KS: Okay, tell me what a day was like, for you. What time did you get up? Where did you eat? What did you have to eat? Do you recollect? Did you have a mess hall there?

GP: Yes.

KS: You had a mess hall, you ate in the mess hall, and were you all women trainees?

GP: All the recruits were there eating …

KS: Did you ever have to serve in the kitchen, KP duty or anything like that?

GP: Fortunately, I didn’t.

KS: Some of the others did, though?

GP: A lot of the others did, but I was never called for KP down there. I don’t know why.

KS: So, if you can recall, I know it’s a long time ago, but do you recall what a typical day was like? What time did you get up? Got up to Reveille, I guess … they blew the bugle?

GP: And you had to fall out and you fell out into formation, and then you were given the orders for the day, what was expected of you that day, which included very often, tests, to determine how smart or how dumb you were. And …

KS: What you might be good at, I guess

GP: … marching and teaching us how to get into formations, and drill.

KS: So, did you do a lot of marching?

GP: We did a lot of drilling, they called it.

KS: Yeah, uh-uh, and okay. Did you get any weapons? Did you fire any weapons?

GP: No, we weren’t exposed to that at all.

KS: Weren’t exposed to do that, okay. Tell me what the food was like. Do you recollect if you were well-fed? Ddo you feel like you were well-fed and all that?

GP: Oh, yes. I didn’t have any problem with the food. I was brought up on the farm, and I could eat most anything.

KS: Okay, so on the farm. I guess they had a pretty good variety of food there.

GP: Yes, they did.

KS: So, when you were there, then, did they determine what you were good at, and decide what, you know, field of activity you might be involved in?

GP: We were given many tests to determine, as I said, whether we were smart enough to do this or that, and I qualified for training in radio school.

KS: Okay, so after about a month then, I guess they said, “Gladys, you’re going to go to Radio School,” huh? You got some orders then, I assume, that directed you to go to … where did you?

GP: Yes, I went to Kansas City, Missouri, to Midland Radio and Television School, it was called. It was a school that trained civilians, but the Army had taken it over at that time, and were training radio operators and mechanics.

KS: Now, were you at a military base when you were there,or were you just kind of living in a hotel?

GP: No, staying in a hotel and going to classes at the Radio School.

KS: Were there many people there with you?

GP: Oh, yes there were. In my class there was probably 50 people. And I was just one class. There was other classes, too, in different levels.

KS: Oh okay. So, there might have been several hundred people in there, I suppose. And how long were you there?

GP: Three months, I think three months.

KS: And what was your training like when you were there? What did they have you do?

GP: Oh we were in school from … we’d get up and went to breakfast at a restaurant they had … that the Army had taken over. And then we went to classes, and we were in classes all day until about five o’clock, when it was time to eat supper, or dinner, or whatever they called it. And then, we had compulsory study hall, ‘til nine o’clock in our hotel room.

KS: And were you monitored? Did somebody come by and say, "Hey, are you studying?"

GP: Yes. There were monitors in all the halls. Absolutely.

KS: No kidding! And they would come in your room and check and see what you were doing? Making sure you were hitting the books?

GP: Be sure you were there and that you were at least pretending to study.

KS: Oh, me. So you were, yeah, it’s almost like being on an Army base I guess, wasn’t it? Very similar?

GP: And on Saturday—the classes were Monday through Friday—and on Saturday, we had military training. There was a place that we would meet and go through our drills and so forth.

KS: Oh, so they didn’t let you off the hook on that?

GP: No, and Sunday was the only day we had off.

KS: And what time did you get up in the morning? Now you said that you were in your room studying until about nine, so what time did they wake you?

GP: At about six o’clock.

KS: At about six, so you didn’t have a lot of free time there did you?

GP: Not there, not at all.

KS: You were pretty busy around the clock except for Sundays, as you say. And what did you [stumbling speech] … Is this Saturday, too, by the way? Did you study on Saturday also?

GP: We weren’t forced to study on Saturday, but we did have practice drilling, and formations, and had whatever the military angle required.

KS: So basically, you were busy six days a week.

GP: Yes.

KS: And then Sunday, you had off. So, you didn’t really have much spare time during the week at all, did you?

GP: No, not at that time.

KS: So, you were kind of going full blast. And Sunday, what did you do? Did you attend church? Did you do anything like that?

GP: I went to church, I’d say about half the time. My two roommates were Catholic and I would go with them. And they would go to mass early. And then we’d go for breakfast, and then we’d try to see some of the city. We’d go to the parks, maybe have a picnic or something like that. And we were invited into the civilian homes very often.

KS: How did you get to know the civilians?

GP: They signed up. If you wanted to have, say a couple of, say a couple of WAACs for Sunday lunch, you signed up, your name and address. And then we could go through the list, and decide where we wanted to go. And very often, they would be at church, and that’s where we would meet them—they would come and introduce themselves. So, they would invite us home. It was. . .

KS: Oh, that’s nice, a little touch of home

GP: People there were very nice to us, I thought.

KS: So, Sundays were really the only days that you had time to do what you wanted to do. Okay, so you were there about three months. Now the daily routine that you were going through, can you describe what your training was actually like? What were you actually studying at that time, how to repair a radio? What did you do?

GP: That was included, we learned Morse code, and how to transmit, what to do if some of the equipment broke down or didn’t operate as it should. That’s the type of mechanics that I was put through.

KS: Anything else you did that would be of interest to learn about? Basically, radio repair, and Morse code, and was that basically it, or was there more?

GP: And we had to learn the procedure that the pilots used for transmitting and receiving messages. Because we were trained to teach pilots.

KS: Now, when you said you had to learn a procedure, do you recall what that procedure was like? What was the procedure that you had to do that was so special? Do you remember?

GP: It was called “tactical procedure.” That we had to teach the pilots how to respond to.

KS: Now, a pilot in an aircraft, did he receive messages? I thought they were voice messages. Were they Morse code messages they received? If he’s flying?

GP: Oh, yes.

KS: I was thinking they were voice messages, but they weren’t.

GP: Well, he had a radio operator on his plane.

KS: Oh, you’re talking about probably a four-engine type aircraft, not a fighter plane or whatever?

GP: Training the radio operators. And well, actually, what we trained were the pilots.

KS: Were these pilots that flew single-engine, or were they multiple or four-engine airplanes?

GP: Well, the ones that were practiced on were single engines.

KS: So, what you are saying is that a pilot of a say, a fighter aircraft. . .

GP: Well, most of these were transports.

KS: Transports, okay.

GP: Mm-hmm. We didn’t get into the fighter.

KS: Okay. So, these are transport pilots. So, their messages were received basically by Morse code, right?

GP: And they had to learn the basics of Morse code. Well, in order to qualify, to pass the test that they were given, they had to be able to copy, say ten words a minute, or whatever, I don’t remember the requirements.

KS: Okay, so then they didn't, if they were out on a long flight or something, then any messages that they would receive would probably be by Morse code versus voice messages, is that right? That’s interesting, I never realized that. So Morse code, was obviously...

GP: Well, it would depend on the type of...

KS: I guess where they were too, if they were close to a control tower, they would probably get voice messages, but if they were long distance, they were probably in Morse code.

GP: It would depend on, yes, what type of flight it was, whether they were carrying armaments, whether they were carrying food or whatever.

KS: It made a difference as to whether they would get a message by Morse code, you mean? Oh, that's interesting. Do you recall what would be the difference why they would get it in Morse code one time and not another?

GP: Well because if they were carrying something that did not relate to the military or to-maybe the plane was sent to New York for, to take office supplies, would be different from if they were taking a load of machine guns.

KS: Ah, okay. So, if they were taking machine guns, it would be by Morse code.

GP: Morse code. It would be more secretive, in other words.

KS: Oh, okay, Okay. Gotcha. And then the other would be plain voice so everybody could understand it.

GP: Most of the time it would be that.

KS: So you'd have to understand Morse code in order to [unintelligible words]. . .

GP: These pilots were selected for certain types of missions.

KS: I see. Okay.

GP: That were sent to this school.

KS: Right. Okay. So . . .

GP: So we had to be trained for that.

KS: Now were the pilots with you when you were at this school? So you were learning at the same time the pilots were.

GP: Yes. I had twenty pilots in my class.

KS: In your class, and you were all learning at the same time. Is that the idea?

GP: No. I'm getting ahead of myself. At the school, in Kansas City, there were no pilots there. Just people training to teach the pilots.

KS: Alright. Gotcha. Okay, well, we covered that pretty well, I guess. Okay, so you were there about three months then.

GP: Something like that.

KS: And then, you got orders to where?

GP: I was assigned to Sioux Falls, South Dakota. There's an Air Force base there.

KS: Okay and did some of your other classmates go to some pretty exotic places around the world or did a lot of people go up to Sioux Falls or did people go all over?

GP: My class went to Sioux Falls but there were other places. I think there was one in Louisiana. I dont remember where they were.

KS: But they could have been anywhere in the US at an Air Force base, I guess?

GP: But I was sent to Sioux Falls, South Dakota.

KS: Okay, so you went to an Air Force base in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, and how many WAACs were there up there? Were there many WAACs there? Or were you kind of one of a kind?

GP: There was two, two barracks, and there was probably two hundred.

KS: Oh, so there were a lot of WAACs up there.

GP: Probably that many, because they did other things, other than teaching the school.

KS: Well some of them, I guess, did office work or whatever.

GP: That's primarily what they did.

KS: So you were kind of unusual, I guess, in the sense that you were coming up there as a trainer and probably there maybe weren't too many people in that category, I guess, were there?

GP: There were, there wasn't a lot. Probably twenty-five to thirty, I think.

KS: Out of the couple hundred WAACs up there that were trainers. Now was this a main training base for this? Did most pilots go through this at that location? Or were there a lot of other locations like it?

GP: There were other locations, quite a few more, this was one of them.

KS: But this was one of the key points in the country, though, for that purpose. Okay, so when you got to Sioux Falls, South Dakota, how did you like being in Sioux Falls, South Dakota in war time and at a military base, I mean what was it like there?

GP: Believe me, it was different.

KS: How was it different?

GP: I think one of the things I remember most is the cold weather, since I came from down here. And in the summer, the sun would be so hot you could just blister if you were out in it, because it was just extremely hot. And several of us, I didnt get blistered, but several of my friends did. I remember that distinctly. And then in the winter, it was so cold, you had to wear ear muffs and things over your eyes if the wind was blowing.

KS: Digress just a second, Gladys. What kind of outfit did the WAACs wear? Did you like what you had to wear and was it comfortable?

GP: It was alright, just plain.

KS: You had a coat, I guess, kind of like. . .

GP: Like a man. We had skirts.

KS: Like a man's military coat of some kind?

GP: We had skirts, no trousers. And regular khaki shirts.

KS: And how about your shoes? Did you have some pretty heavy duty shoes or were they feminine shoes or what?

GP: They were regular. . .

KS: Military shoes?

GP: Military shoes, I'll put it that way.

KS: It's not the kind you'd pick out if you went to the store to buy some for yourself.

GP: And you were required to wear those any time you were in uniform. You had to wear those. You couldn't select your own.

KS: So, while you were there, did you have to wear your uniform most of the time?

GP: All the time.

KS: How about on your free time? I mean, off the base, did you still have to wear your uniform or did they allow you to wear standard clothes?

GP: If you wanted to. There were certain times you could wear civilian clothes.

KS: But on the base, though, you had to wear your uniform only.

GP: Absolutely.

KS: Okay and what rank were you at that time? Corporal or Sergeant?

GP: Sergeant.

KS: So you were Sergeant Moore? Okay, so what was your day like there? Now you were there, I guess, most of the war, then? How long were you there in Sioux Falls?

GP: After we stopped training the pilots, I assumed we had trained enough. I was sent to Florida, from one extreme to the other.

KS: And so this was like in late '44 or like '45 when you went to Florida? I guess you were in Sioux Falls about a little over a year, I suppose, huh?

GP: Yes, it was over a year. About a year and a half there.

KS: A year and a half in Sioux Falls.

GP: Or more. And then I went . . .

KS: Then you went to Florida.

GP: Then I went to Florda.

KS: Okay, well continuing on with your Sioux Falls experience. What was a day like for you there? What did you do? Did you have your same routine?

GP: Well you had to fall out for Reveille and you knew what you were going to do.

KS: Now were you with men at that time or did the WAACs fall out by themselves?

GP: No. Just the women. The men were in a different area.

KS: In another area. Okay.

GP: And we had, the WAACs had their own mess hall and at that time, we had the change to WAC [Womens Army Corps] and WAAC. I dont remember exactly when it changed but it did. And I was working under the Air Force, Army Air Force.

KS: Army Air Corps, yes it was at that time, wasnt it? Army Air Force. Okay, so you'd fall out in the morning. You had . . .

GP: Went to breakfast.

KS: Chow.

GP: And then went to class.

KS: Did you eat in the mess hall then, too?

GP: Yes, there was a mess hall there. It was the only place to eat. There wasnt a cafeteria or anything on the base.

KS: That was it,

GP: That was it.

KS: Did you have a PX there if you had wanted a snack everyday or whatever?

GP: Yes, there was a PX.

KS: So after breakfast then, you went back, freshened up and then went to your class, I guess then.

GP: Went to class.

KS: And what was your day like when you got to class, about what, eight o'clock I suppose?

GP: I think so and class lasts until about three o'clock in the afternoon. Of course, we went to lunch and then went back to class. I had twenty people in what was referred to as "BD" Board.

KS: What's "BD" for?

GP: It was the word for "class." Instead of saying you had twenty pupils in your class you had twenty . . . "How many's in your BD?" "Twenty. How many's in yours?" "Ten, twelve. . ."

KS: BD. Yeah, okay. So, tell me what your class was like. What did you do in that? Did you sit down at a bunch of keyboards, not keyboards, but . . .?

GP: The men did. See, there's nothing but men in the classes.

KS: Okay. So you start from scratch. These pupils didnt know anything about anything.

GP: Yes, that's right. And we were trained to start them.

KS: What do you call the little device - click - what is it called? Transmitter I guess, or what? That's what they had to be trained on, I guess.

GP: That's the only thing that could send the dit-dahs with. What was - some key?

KS: Yes, there's a special name for it but anyway. So they'd sit down and you'd just like teaching anybody how to type or anything else, you had to, "A stands for. . ." What does A stand for?

GP: It's "dit-dah." We taught them that and then the basics of and mechanics of what they had to use.

KS: You didnt have to teach them how to fix them, too, did you, if they were broken or whatever?

GP: Well, I was supposed to but most of them knew more about that than I did.

KS: So, so how long did a term last? I mean, did you have them for like two months or three months or a month?

GP: I believe it was five weeks, best I remember that they were in training. Five weeks.

KS: So you had a new class every five weeks.

GP: And the men were from everywhere, and of course you know like most teachers, I had my pets. And one special was from Chicago [Illinois} and we kept in touch for a long time after that but they would change classes and new people coming in all the time.

KS: Every five weeks. Now when the pilots were there, did they have anything else they were being trained in, or was it specifically Morse code?

GP: Morse code and the light mechanics was the only thing that I was aware of, so they had a lot of. . .

KS: So they had a couple of things they were learning then, Morse code and some other things. You had them what, at a particular time during the day or all day?

GP: In the morning and then part of the afternoon.

KS: And when they werent with you, they were doing some of these other training things?

GP: Most of the time they were learning Morse code.

KS: Oh, they were. That was very intensive then, I mean it was very intensive training. I mean they've gotta know.

GP: Oh yes! And it was very important that they learn at the time and then they had to go flight line and they would go up in the plane. And I would be the ground control for each one and grade them to see how much they had learned and we transmitted back and forth. That's how I determined how much they knew.

KS: And did you have anybody flunk out? Anybody not pass? Ever?

GP: I cant remember that because we. . .

KS: I guess they're all pretty intelligent people to begin with.

GP: Well they had all of them taken the AGCT and I had too, of course. And in order to qualify for the school, you see, they had to have a certain intelligence level.

KS: Right, so they were pretty intelligent people to begin with, so most of them have. . .

GP: I cant recall flunking anyone.

KS: I guess if you flunked that, you were in pretty big trouble, if you did, because you wouldnt be a pilot, I guess, if you couldnt pass that Morse code school. So when the pilots were flying, what type of information did you transmit to them? Did you tell them, "Take a bank to the right or bank to the left." And then they had to give you the signal back, "Yeah, I understand." And then they'd do it or?

GP: No, it wasnt that type of information. The only thing I was interested in was how well they had learned the Morse code and their responses. And there was almost a standard message that we sent. As they were going up, we'd send. As they were flying, we'd send one. And as they were coming in, we'd send one.

KS: I see. It didnt really relate to them flying the airplane, per se, but rather other types of messages unrelated to flying.

GP: No. I had nothing to do with that - to flying.

KS: So you basically wanted to see how well they could fly the plane at the same time they were getting Morse code messages.

GP: Correct.

KS: Kind of like walking and chewing gum. Gotta be able to do both at the same time. While you were there at Sioux Falls, did you have much free time there?

GP: I had more free time there. And we would have weekends off.

KS: Work basically five days a week there?

GP: And there werent many things that we were required to do other than the teaching.

KS: So what did you do in your free time? What was available to you?

GP: We'd go to the day room and put on a record and dance, do whatever. Read, we had lots of reading materials available. Date.

KS: When you went to the day room was it just WACS there again? Did they totally separate the men and the women, I guess?

GP: The men could come to pick us up or take us out.

KS: But they couldnt go into the same quarters you were in?

GP: No, but they could go into the day room but that was like a lounge.

KS: They were for everybody. That was for everybody. Okay, you didnt have a special one just for the WACs, then.

GP: Well it was in our area and it was considered ours but the men could come in if they wanted.

KS: Any enlisted men could come in, I think. I see. And okay, so you were there and did you, did they have a library? Like you said, I guess in the day room they had library books and so forth that you could read.

GP: Oh yes. And then there was no shortage of dates because there were so many more men stationed there than women. And we'd go into town, go to the Corn Palace, which was Sioux Falls, where Guy Lombardo and those people played.

KS: Oh, the dance pavillion, or whatever, dance hall or whatever?

GP: And that would happen about once a month because it was near an Air Force base and the people in the entertainment field felt they were obligated to entertain the troops when they could. So they were at the Corn Palace real often.

KS: Okay, while you were in Sioux Falls, did you have occasion to observe how, you know, the supply system worked? Were you able to get what you needed to do your job satisfactorilly or have any problem with that?

GP: We never noticed any problems with that. I didnt.

KS: Always had plenty of what you needed to do your job?

GP: Sure did.

KS: How about your-who did you report to? Now did you report to a WAAC? Somebody in the Womens Army Corp?

GP: We had a Commanding Officer.

KS: And that was a female, I take it?

GP: Yes,

KS: Okay.

GP: And then she had two lieutenants who worked under her

KS: And they were all women, I take it.

GP: Uh-huh. All women.

KS: So you didnt have any male leadership that you reported to.

GP: Didn't have to. Didn't have to make excuses to the men at all.

KS: So, and she probably I guess, reported to the base commander or whatever, but anyway in your chain of command they were all females. Boy, it's so different from today, isn't it? God that's [unintelligible words] just mix everybody up.

GP: Yeah, they live in the same barracks.

KS: It's amazing, isn't it, how different it is? Did you, did you ever have occasion to go on any maneuvers or anything while you were there or did you strictly just teach basically? You never got out doing anything unusual?

GP: In the field? No. I didn't.

KS: So basically a teaching job only. Okay, So you had some female officers. Did you report to a lieutenant, one of the lieutenants or did you have somebody, a top sergeant, that you would report to?

GP: Oh yeah. There was a master sergeant, in charge of our barracks.

KS: Now was she, she was kind of like you, just somebody who joined the service and went up through the ranks over a period of a few years. So she wasnt career military because there was no career female military then, as far as I know.

GP: The more aggressive ones were selected for that job as a top sergeant. Because they didnt mind telling you what to do.

KS: They probably enjoyed it. What did you think of the leadership that you had? You know it's kind of unusual, now. Back then a woman reporting to another, that was unusual, wasn't it. Because out in the bank and most places, women normally reported to a man, I guess. So what was it like reporting to a woman back then? I guess that was kind of a culture change, wasnt it?

GP: I really didnt give it a thought, because this was the only experience I had had in this field and being in, serving just with women or working just with women, so I didnt really give it a thought. Didnt have any resentment or anything.

KS: And did you feel like everybody got along pretty well or did some of the women who were more aggressive make it kind of uncomfortable for some of the people who reported to them? Or could you get any sense of that at all?

GP: Well, in a group of people, there are always those who are slightly hostile or who are different. And we had to recognize that and we had some that were really different, but we adjusted to that.

KS: Were they in leadership positions?

GP: No.

KS: No, they were more like at your level, so to speak?

GP: Uh-hum. Yeah.

KS: And just kinda hard to get along with sometimes, just like in any career.

GP: Sure.

KS: Yeah. Okay. How was the discipline in your organization? What was, I mean, could you talk about some of these folks who were more incorrigible or whatever you want to call them? Did you have some discipline problems in the WAACs back then?

GP: There were some who wouldnt come in when they were supposed to, at night. You know, we had a curfew at night. Supposed to be in bed by a certain time and there were some who just wouldnt or couldnt make it, so there was always those.

KS: Well, what happened to them?

GP: Well, they were punished. They were usually moved to another unit.

KS: Oh, okay.

GP: So we dont know what happened to them. They werent put in the jail or anything like that.

KS: I guess if they were like that, they couldnt afford to keep them in a teaching spot, I guess, could they?

GP: So they would move them off to some other place.

KS: Yeah, so you never heard of any particular punishment or they were just moved out of the area, huh, into some other work? How about the female officers? Did everybody get along pretty well? Did you see any of the - somebody who might've - their authority went to their head or anything? This kind of thing? Did you sense any of that or was it a pretty congenial working environment?

GP: I didnt have any experiences with that. They were always decent, seemingly trying to do what they were supposed to do.

KS: So it basically was a pretty smooth working environment except for a few wild people that had to be moved out. Okay now. You say you had some favorites. Do you remember why some of them were favorites? Were they just really good at what they were doing and just kind of nice people, I guess.

GP: Just bent over backward to be nice to the teacher. And I would remember that. . .

KS: Because they were all officers, werent they? They were all officers, weren't they? And of course, you were a sergeant so you were really their leader in the school, also.

GP: At that particular time, yes.

KS: So that was kinda of, could have been a little touchy.

GP: That was a switch for them.

KS: Yeah, a big switch for them. So you were really subordinate in many respects, but in this position you were in, you were the leader.

GP: I never had to send anyone out of class.

KS: I think they probably knew if you sent them out of class, they may not be a pilot very long . That's what I suspect. So in your free time while you were there in Sioux Falls, did you have the same situation with people kinda inviting you into their homes and so forth, that you knew maybe from church?

GP: Yes, there was one place I went most every Sunday for lunch while I was there.

KS: Have you maintained any contact with that?

GP: No, not since I left. It was two ladies who were middle aged and they were - their parents were dead. And they were two sisters who lived together. I dont remember where they worked but they both worked and they were just as nice as could be. And they would - after the first Sunday that my roommate and I ate there, they wanted us to come every Sunday after that.

KS: Okay. Well, that was nice.

GP: And would make us promise, "Now you're gonna be here next Sunday." Yeah, they were very nice.

KS: Oh, that's great. Did you have occasion to interact with the USO, the Red Cross or any organization like that? While you were there, did they do anything for the military? Do you recollect anything at all?

GP: I dont recall ever going to the USO.

KS: Did they even have one?

GP: That I dont remember, either. Probably didnt at that time because the people who were there, most of them, were coming and going pretty fast.

KS: And their schedule was such that they didnt have a lot of free time, either I guess, did they? They were so intent on their training.

GP: They had jobs to do.

KS: Okay, so tell me again, what were some of the things you did in your free time? You went to this, what did you call it, the "Barn?" What was that place you said?

GP: Corn Palace.

KS: Corn Palace. Yeah, okay. Corn Palace.

GP: That was one of the places that we went. Well, we didnt go every week but we went there more often, I guess, that any other place. And we were going to town and go shopping and there were lots of places that catered to the military.

KS: Did you kinda keep up with what was happening with our forces and what was going on the war and everything? How did they keep you informed? I guess they made an effort to do that. Was it through the newspaper?

GP: We just had newspaper, radio, was the only. . .

KS: Nothing in particular through your chain of command or anything?

GP: No, we were never briefed or anything like that.

KS: Okay. Did you get anything unusual in your training pattern with these pilots that might have related to a particular war effort? Was there anything that you had to do differently because of something that was happening in the world or was it just basically Morse code period?

GP: That was it.

KS: So they didnt change your mode of training for any, to react to anything that was happening, you know? For example, just the thought that crosses my mind, it looks like the enemy could read Morse code, too, could understand Morse code, so. . .

GP: Of course they did.

KS: So how did they keep from informing the enemy at the same time they were informing our pilots, you know, if somebody happened to be listening? I guess there was no way to avoid that, was there? Or did you have any special transmission frequencies that changed or anything of that nature?

GP: Not, not to my knowledge.

[tape ends]